Are you looking for tips on how to create content that is both effective and engaging? You will learn how to create content that is both effective and engaging.
Deirdre Tshien is the cofounder and CEO of Capsho, the world’s first AI-powered podcast copywriter. She is the author of Honey Trap Marketing, and host of The Grow My Podcast Show, and the Podcasting Entrepreneur.
Topics discussed in this episode:
- Why repurposing might not be the best option for you
- Content Honey Traps
Here’s a breakdown of what is covered:
[00:01:52] – How Deirdre got to where she is now.
[00:05:58] – During the time of the Pandemic, New York was very empty and the city shut down. It was an interesting time to be in New York. It forced the company to think differently about how it is that we use things like social media, and it made them think about their business.
[00:08:58] – What made Deirdre realize she was going about content repurposing wrong. The old way of repurposing is no longer giving the results.
[00:11:05] – What is this world of social media?
[00:23:40] – Get more information about Capsho
More on Deirdre:
Other episodes you’ll enjoy:
Welcome to The Know Like and Trust Show with Britney Gardner, the podcast where we explore the world of personal branding and how to build your Know like and trust factor up for ultimate business success. And now, here's your host, Britney Gardner.
Hey, friends. We're going to be talking a little. Bit about repurposing, why straight up, repurposing might not be the best option for you and Content Honey Traps. I'm interviewing Deirdre Tschien. She's the cofounder and CEO of Cap Show, the world's first AIpowered podcast copywriter.
She is the creator of content Honey Traps, author of Honey Trap Marketing, and host of The Grow My Podcast Show and the Podcasting Entrepreneur. And I won't lie, I actually mentioned this in an interview later, but when I first heard her take that repurposing is bad for ROI, I was like, oh, no, this is not happening. But I think you're going to be pleasantly surprised when you listen in and see exactly what she's talking about. All right didry. Welcome to the no like and trust show.
Thanks so much for having me here. Britney is so proud about this. So I'm really excited about this conversation for various reasons, one of which, anyone who makes podcasting easier is like an A plus in my book, just for logistical content creation reasons. Right. I have not heard your take on some of these topics that we're going to be talking about before.
So I'm really excited for the listeners to get something out of this, to hear a different take on repurposing and just know that content creation has lots of options and lots of methods and tactics, but there's always going to be something out there that works really well for you. And I like giving people that option. Yes. Yeah. So why don't you tell us a.
Little bit about how you got to where you are so far, and then we kind of jump on from there. So we kind of fell into agency work for ecommerce business owners, and we transitioned from there into coaching. So from mid 2020, we started coaching ecommerce business owners. And that was actually when I started my first podcast, which is called The Growth Boss, because I knew well, I was told actually to start a podcast if you want to find your voice and get yourself heard, especially when you're an expert. And I had no idea what I was doing.
I don't know all these buttons. I didn't even know if I needed a mic. I just knew nothing. But it was one of those, okay, well, we're very coachable. We're just going to take the leap and do it.
And it was great. It was a great learning curve. It was a lot of fun. And then after a while, because I'm very economically minded, I was like, I'm putting all this working. I'm putting all this effort in.
And I'm not really it's been great from a learning perspective and a growth perspective. I'm not really seeing tangible results. And so I decided to really nerd out on how do I make this podcasting thing work, how do I actually get people to listen to it and then how do I from there, actually get people onto my list, into my conversion events, onto a call with me, and eventually converted. So I spent a good few months just working, testing a whole host of different things. And in that first year of Podcasting, we actually did over $220,000 through that what I call the Podcast traffic funnel, which was awesome.
And then in the meantime, I was talking to clients. They were Ecommerce business owners, price based businesses, and a lot of them actually start their business in Ecommerce because they don't want to be the face of the brand. They're just like, I just want my product to be and I'm like, oh gosh, no, this is not how it works. Especially when you're a brand new business just starting. The only differentiator is you.
So you have to start telling your stories. You have to be putting yourself out there. And they were like, oh, okay, fine, I get that I have to tell my stories now, but I just don't know how. And so that was actually how the first iteration of Cap Show came about. So what that did, it was very rudimentary, very rules based, but the software would essentially prompt users through telling their stories.
We had a user actually describe it as a combination of like, Mad, Libs and Journaling. So prompt them through the stories and then the software would take that and convert it into a bank of captions and emails. And I was like, oh my gosh, this is so awesome. This is like the best thing since I spread. Everyone's going to want it.
This can help all entrepreneurs. And you can fully tell how well that goes when you're trying to help all entrepreneurs.
A few months in and we were like, this is not working. Why is no one wanting this thing? And so we have a coach ourselves and he was like, no, you are not helping all entrepreneurs. You have to pick a niche. You have to choose someone specific that you are serving.
And that sort of honestly put me in a bit of a tail spin because I was like, but you don't understand, we're different and this can actually help everyone. And all those excuses came up, but I'm still very coachable, so I was like, okay, fine, we need to niche down. Who do we want to serve? And very quickly it came to who I was. I was an expert who podcasted.
And what I love about Podcasts and community is they already know, you already know the value of storytelling. I don't have to convince you of that. You're already doing it. And having gone through the pain of building my business with Podcasting as a core, core element of it, and knowing how much time it goes into actually growing the thing. It's almost like growing another business in a way.
I was like, this is a problem that we can really solve for. So that's how Cap show now came to be. So there's a lot to unpack there. You moved to New York City months before the city basically shut down and emptied out with the emergence of the Pandemic. So maybe not the best new neighborhood during that time period.
I don't know exactly where in New York you are, but that was probably a bit stressful. You had to move through another business and then finally you found technology, some sort of aided system that was really helpful and went through what? Well, honestly, I think every single business out there goes through, no, this is an amazing product, everybody can use this. And really having to kind of face up to the idea that while everyone can, that doesn't mean it's going to help everyone so immensely that they actually find the value in it and kind of cut through the noise of the marketing world, right? Yeah, it was really interesting time, as you said, having moved here at that time.
It was really good and really bad things. Well, I shouldn't say really bad, just like pros and cons of it, right. We found ourselves at this point in time when fortunately there were more and more people looking to get online and we were just at the right place at the right time. So there was a lot of that in there and in a way it felt like we were part of history in a way there's no other time, I think that we will ever see times Square absolutely deserted. So much personal.
You could be doing cartwheels across the thing and not hit anyone. And so that was a moment of history that we got to be part of as well. But yeah, to your point, it was also things were shutting down and businesses were shutting up shop and things like that. So it was definitely a very interesting time to be in New York. But that definitely did sort of get us it made us have to think differently about a lot of things, right?
And especially about how it is that we use things like social media and at the time everyone was getting online because you had to, that was the only place. And so social media and everything was getting saturated and it was like, how do you actually get cut through? So again, we spent a lot of time figuring all of that out. So that was also, I think, a really great thing, honestly, that came out of that time. Well, to your point that you had to think about things differently, right?
If there's something in your life, something big like that, that forces you to think about life differently, you start thinking about all other aspects differently too. Well, hey, there's just one thing in my business that's not going well. How can I do that differently? Or it can go to anything. We have chickens in our backyard and like, oh, this thing isn't working out.
How can we fix this to make them happier? Or your sprinkler breaks in the front yard. We're like, well, that one corner was never getting watered. Well, how can we fix this to make everything it's all these little things. But what I'm gearing towards here is the idea of repurposing as a whole.
Right? I know that you've spoken about in the past why people should not be repurposing their content. And the first time I heard you say that, I was like, oh no, she did not say that because I am all about the repurposing. And I dove into it and I totally see where you're coming from, but I'm actually really interested in having to share a little bit about how you came to that particular idea. Was there anything that really kind of hit you in the face and made you realize I've been going about this wrong?
Yes. Back in 2013, when we started our first business for Context, at that time, we actually grew off the back of social media because Instagram was also in its infancy. So we were fortunate again, right place, right time, and we rode that wave of Instagram growth. And so when it came to all of my other businesses since then, I had an expectation in my mind, I'm like, yeah, this is easy. You post stuff and people come across you.
That was my experience, honestly. But very quickly, reality hit because that's just not what social media is like now. And so when we started our coaching business, and especially the podcasting, I was just straight repurposing because I'm like, again time, all of that we need to save on this. So how can I use my cornerstone content of podcasting and just clip some things, maybe pull out a quote and just post it and be done with it? And I was very quickly finding that it was great to save time, but at the same time is still time.
I was still using some time to create that thing, but it wasn't really getting the results that I needed. It wasn't getting the engagement, it wasn't getting the views, it wasn't getting the reach, and definitely not the click throughs that I wanted from promoting my podcast. And so that was when I was like, again, same thing. You're forced to think about things differently. There has to be a better way to actually make this work.
And so when I kind of stepped back and I looked at, okay, what is this world of social media? And I talk about Instagram a lot because obviously I'm a native Instagram, so that's the platform I definitely lean on. And so when I stepped back and I looked at, okay, what is Instagram strategy? What are they trying to do. It was all about reels.
It's all about the short form video and it's all about how we entertain. And I put entertainment in better commerce because entertain can mean a whole host of things, one of which is educational. But also, hey, there's something just funny, right? That spectrum. And I started looking at what was working for other accounts out there, other influencers or other businesses.
And basically that was kind of what started me on the journey to what I call content hacking, which is how do you find what's actually working on that platform? Because that's actually what Instagram is kind of pushing out and what the audience is wanting as well, because obviously it's all algorithm driven. What can you find that fits that for your audience? I was looking at it, so for my audience of ecommerce business owners, these are the accounts that they're kind of already following and these are the posts that are performing really well. And so I looked at those posts and I was like, well, those are pretty simple.
I can do my variation of that post, I can do my own. So I was just using it as inspiration. And so then I started doing that. So what I would do is I would take the post that was giving me the inspiration, I would think about what the topic of my podcast was and instead of just clipping that I used to do previously, I would just be like, okay, I can just overlay my topic into this type of post and create my own version of it. And so that's what I started doing.
So that's interesting. So I've been on the same journey as you and my podcast social media content is mixed in with my business social media content. I don't have a separate like since we're talking about Instagram, I don't have a separate Instagram account for my podcast. They're all the same. But the old way of doing the audiograms, I will fully admit, is no longer giving the results.
And even if you post an audiogram as a real, it's like Instagram knows they're like just going for the cheap shot here. I'll fully admit I've seen the declining reach and the declining engagement on those things as well. So if it's okay, do you have a specific example you could give of something that you're pulling from your current content and overlaying it into these well performing posts? Yes. For example, basically every week I do Reels.
I do two promotional posts for my podcast episode. And so just this week, for example, I dropped an episode that was about podfade and really the reason why so many podcasts don't keep going. And I was telling my own Pod Fade journey, I do have a team that helps me with this, but we were looking for inspiration around things like Pod Fade. So we kind of anchored in on that topic as one of the things podcast. And we found a really well performing real that was actually not about pod fade, but it was actually about him just fading.
It was like about him. He's working and he's like over it. He wants to take a nap. And it was trending audio, things like that. And so we were like, you know what?
We can actually reconcept that into with podcast instead. And so that was the last reel that we actually put up. Now, it's not a silver bullet. I'm not saying it's the silver bullet to everything because that particular real, I'm being really honest, did actually get the views that we got about 10% of the views that we usually do clean and less than that. But everything's a test and land because we're constantly testing with these things because it's not just about the actual real about the content.
It's also about what we call the content Honey traps. And the content Honey traps is probably actually the even more important thing. So even though I was like, don't read purpose, just read concepts, I'm also kind of trying to balance it out because I also know the value and the time saving of just being able to create audiograms. I was like, okay, so if I wanted to just create audiograms, what would I do to make that audiogram work? And this comes down to Content Honey traps, which is really about how do you create so much curiosity about something that people will be compelled to watch, listen, do the action that you want them to take?
And so for me, the reason why I talk about that is because we're also testing with our hooks. So sometimes the content itself, we might be like, oh, we thought that was awesome. That should be getting way more views. But because our hook, because our Content Honey trap maybe wasn't as strong or as compelling as we thought it would be, that's the reason why that particular wheel didn't work. And so we're actually putting that same thinking and learning into things like audiograms.
So we're actually testing for my other podcast. I have two podcasts, I have a grammar podcast show and I have a podcast entrepreneur. So for the podcasting entrepreneur, because it's all interview based, I am just going, okay, if we just use sort of an audiogram style thing we're actually testing, can we actually make this work through really compelling content Honey traps? Can we get people, can we compel someone to actually still watch the thing even though it is an audiogram at the end of the day? So we're constantly testing and learning about all of these different ways of doing it.
So it's interesting. So if I'm reading between the lines, you're with the audiogram pulling a clip that gives a curiositydriven beginning and kind of laying the honey trap as you will for, hey, there's this missing piece here. You got to listen to the whole show to gain that piece is that correct? So, yes, in short, there's kind of eight mental models that we kind of created through, again, the whole process of my first podcast and just trying to get people to listen to it and stuff. And that's how we came up with the Content Honey Trap framework.
So, yes, to your point, if it's storybased, we do want to leave people on a cliffhanger or some kind of we don't want to give it away. It's the same thing. If it's tips based, it's like, we could be like, you know what, this episode, this topic I'm going to be talking about, you know what it's not about? It's not about this and this. So what is it about?
Come and listen to find out. So, yes, we're always wanting to create that curiosity because that is actually what makes someone happy, right? That's what actually makes them want to go listen to the rest of your podcast. So that's always what we're trying to do and it's at every step. So for us, it's like, okay, real cover needs to create curiosity that someone actually plays it and watches the thing.
And then when they play and watch the thing, it has to create so much curiosity that they read the caption. And when they read the caption, it has to create curiosity. So much curiosity that they go and click the link and bio. And it's like at every step of that funnel, that what I call the podcast traffic funnel. You want to be creating that curiosity to make them take the next step with you.
Yeah, the curiosity aspect, if I look at my content as a whole with our we're talking about my podcast content, email content, social media posts, it's the ones that have really curiosity driven hooks that have always, by and large, performed better than others. And you can quibble about the number of likes this month versus three months ago. But if you look at trends for each month, on the whole, those curiosity boosters, they're the gold mines. They are, exactly. And so when we're actually creating Capture, this version of it, which is an AI powered podcast copywriter, we were like, we don't want it to be as simple as we're just going to summarize your episode.
We wanted to be able to bring that type of value, that value of the human intelligence, of like, okay, how can we almost put these mental models that we created? How can we seed them into the software so that it actually helps podcasters, at least with a really good starting point of like, hey, this is a way that you can create some curiosity to make someone want to read your show notes or make someone want to click listen, or make someone want to press the button from the email to go listen to the podcast. So, yeah, that's kind of the whole strategy behind even capture and how capture works. I've tested out capt show. I've put my two demo episodes, I did one solo and I did one interview because I wanted to see how it handled each of them, of course.
And I was like, I see what they're doing. And it's not that often that you can sign up with a software as a service system, load something up, get a result immediately and be like, okay, yeah, there's some things I want to work through here. But I get it. This makes sense. I got to say, it was very nice actually going through your system and realizing that this was something I could get on board with.
And I don't want to say this in a disingenuous way, something that actually makes my microbusiness life easier without being poorly done or cheesy. Because so many of the timesavers, if you will, out there, they're time savings, sure, but they're basically something that a monkey could do a welltrained one, sure, but I don't want my business to look like I am hiring primates to do my work for me. So it's nice seeing a piece of software that actually AIDS the kind of thinking I already have involved in my content strategy. Thank you. Thanks for saying that.
That's exactly what we want to be providing. And you summed it up just beautifully.
That was the whole post behind capture. So thank you for saying that is like, how can we make a podcast life easier? But as you said, not in a basic way. And it is AI powered. So yes, there's going to be a lot of spelling mistakes, there's going to be some missing sentences.
But in the scheme of things, like literally going, we have users who used to spend 4 hours a week doing all of these things and now it takes them like eight minutes because they don't have a blank page anymore. They can just be like, yes, this is a great bot starter and I'm just going to complete do it in my own way and do it in my own tone of voice. And that's exactly what we want to be providing. Yeah. And by the time this episode airs, I'll have already published another podcast episode, basically walking through three different ways to automate content creation.
And I say very clearly at the beginning of that episode, there is no true automation here. There are automation AIDS. And I do cover AI tools as the third point in that particular episode. And I walk through how I like to use AI tools and I've tested quite a few AI copywriters for various different things, right? Some of them are really good for outlines.
If you need to outline a podcast episode or a blog post or a video script, they're really good for that, but they're not good for the details. Other ones are really good for analogies or ways to kind of come up with ideas that you can use to storytell. But I have not found one that's. Good at all of them, and I've definitely not found one that doesn't have spelling mistakes. Exactly.
Yeah. And one that also understands an Aussie accent. That's been hard to come by. Yeah. Funny how I haven't had that problem myself.
I think looking at tools like this as a way to aid your business and to reduce the time it is taking you to create your own marketing efforts is an incredibly powerful CEO move. But by and large, I like to teach my clients, my one on one clients, and people who buy into any of my programs, that if content creation right now is taking you eight or 10 hours a week, which is what, the average, I think I think Adobe published that statistic a couple of years ago, and it's probably worse today. It's probably like twelve or something now. But if it's taking the average small business owner eight or 10 hours a week, and we can cut that down to two and a half, that is the job well done. Yeah, 100%.
I'm so excited. We only really went live, gosh, two weeks ago, and it's still in its infancy, and we're so excited about how much better we can make it, and we're so looking forward to that. And we just recently launched blog posts and YouTube descriptions as well. So, yeah, really excited to be able to test that out, too. So dedicated.
Can you tell us if anyone is interested in Capture? Where can we find out more information about it? Where can we direct our people to? For sure. I would love for anyone who if you're an expert in podcasts and you want a really easy way to come with a title description, show notes, social media caption, promotional email, blog post, and YouTube description, come and try us out.
We have a free trial. It's at capshaapsho.com. All right, well, dude, thank you so much. It's been a joy. I love hearing your take on repurposing and how to include more of that curiosity to boost our traffic.
Thank you. All right. Thanks again, Adrian. I am really happy to get this information out there to you guys. I love finding ways that we can all find a good content strategy that works for our business.
And Captcho is a pretty sweet software for podcasters out there. So if you are a podcaster and you have not gone the video streaming route or the blog route as your main content engine, I highly recommend checking it out. Friends, you know the deal. If you found value in this episode. Or you know somebody else who would also find value.
Please share this episode with them and hop on over to whichever podcast platform you are on right now and leave an honest five star review letting people know not only that the show is worth your time tuning into. But that this is the episode that actually led you to leave that review. It helps people like me. It helps people like DJRE. We need your input to keep making great content for you.
So if you've enjoyed this, do us that solid. Help us out. And until next week, keep building that know like and trust factor in your world.
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