On this episode of The Know, Like & Trust Show, host Britney Gardner and guest Eliya Finkelstein discuss the importance of finding your unique voice in content creation. Finkelstein shares her journey of struggling to stand out in a sea of sameness to eventually ramping up her personality and voice, which led to her becoming more confident in her content. She recommends starting with small steps and building upon them to gradually develop a unique style. The episode also touches on the use of AI tools in content creation and the importance of staying true to brand identity.
Eliya Finkelstein’s journey towards finding her voice has not been easy. At one point, she felt frustrated and stifled, unable to say anything in the sea of sameness in the online world. However, this turning point led her to realize that the barrier to having a strong voice and personality in copy and content is not as high as we make it out to be. Although it has been a process, Eliya has come a long way in confidently bringing her voice to her brand, demonstrating that finding your voice is a journey.
- Eliya Finkelstein’s journey to finding her voice in content creation
- Incorporating personality and uniqueness into copywriting
- AI as a tool for creativity, not a replacement
- Starting small to build a brand’s identity
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Highlights in this episode:
- [00:02:41] “Finding Your Voice: A Challenging Process”
- [00:08:33] Starting with Gray: Building a Full Palette
- [00:10:56] “Discovering the Power of Authentic Copywriting”
- [00:15:49] “Crafting Authentic Copy: Finding Your Voice”
- [00:21:56] “AI and Creativity: Setting New Floors”
- [00:29:31] “Copywriting Magic: Borrowing from Deadpool and Celebrities”
- [00:35:08] “Marketing expert shares genuine advice and conversation”
Are you struggling to make your content stand out among a sea of sameness? Do you yearn for your brand to shine like a badass with a personality that captivates your audience? Well, it’s high time you discover your voice and craft a brand voice guide to steer your content creation game like a boss. Blending in is for amateurs. It’s time to break free and unleash your unique mojo on the world!
What is a Brand Voice and How Important is it?
Defining Your Brand Voice and Core Values
Your brand’s voice? It’s the holy trinity of personality, tone, and style. It’s the secret sauce that infuses every single marketing move you make, connecting you with your audience like soulmates. Nailing down that voice and clarifying your brand’s core values? That’s the key to unlocking a kickass, unforgettable, and totally genuine brand experience that leaves a lasting impression.
The Role of Brand Voice in Content Marketing
Your brand voice plays a crucial role in content marketing as it’s the key to building a connection with your target audience and establishing brand identity. Your content should reflect your brand’s voice and tone, and the messaging should align with your core values. In a world that’s filling up with AI content left and right, this is one of the last remaining ways to truly carve out your space and exit the sea of sameness.
Examples of Brand Voice
Many brands have unique and memorable voices that differentiate them from their competitors. For example, Dollar Shave Club’s humorous and irreverent tone has helped them stand out in the crowded men’s grooming market. Conversely, Apple’s sleek and minimalist voice echoes the brand’s design aesthetic.
In Episode #245 of The Know, Like & Trust Show, Eliya Finkelstein discusses how she and her business partner’s brand voice plays on a combination of Lizzo (uplifting), Kate McKinnon (sarcasm and wit), and Deadpool (sheer comic genius and breaking the fourth wall).
How to Find Your Voice and Develop Your Persona
Exploring Your Thoughts and Opinions
The process of finding your brand’s voice starts with exploring your thoughts and opinions. Think about what makes your brand unique and how you want to be perceived by your audience. This will help you define your brand’s personality and tone that aligns with your core values.
Take your brand’s tone and combine it with those things you can’t stop yourself from screaming from the rooftops. Your contrarian opinions, your observations about what everyone else in your niche is doing wrong–these phrases and thoughts could become part of your manifesto if you were to write one.
As Eliya said, “I remember getting to a point where I felt like it was a sea of sameness, and I’m just blending in with all of it. You have to be willing to care enough to stand out, or you risk drowning in the sea of sameness.”
Start Small and Amp Up the Volume
Start small and turn up the volume: Eliya shares that adding just one piece of personality or voice at a time was enough to improve her content. She advises recognizing specific things that make you unique and turning up the volume on them gradually over time. In this way, authoritative content starts emerging without your feeling overwhelmed.
Describing Your Brand and Persona
Once you have a clear idea of your brand’s personality and values, describe it in detail. What words, phrases, and emotions do you want to evoke? This will help you create a brand voice guide that outlines your brand’s voice and tone for all your content creation efforts.
The Importance of Consistency in Your Voice and Tone
It’s one thing to define your brand’s voice and tone, but it’s worth thinking about how you will ensure consistency across all your marketing channels. Your brand’s voice and tone should be reflected in everything you do – from your website copy to your social media posts. Return to your brand’s tone of voice guide often so you don’t veer too far.
Social Media and Your Brand Voice
The Role of Your Social Media Voice
Your content marketing strategy includes social media, and your style guide will extend to how you publish social posts if you want your brand values and style to extend throughout everything you create. Social media is a powerful tool for building brand awareness and engagement. Your social media voice should be an extension of your brand’s voice and personality to create a consistent and memorable experience for your audience.
Social Media Marketing and Your Brand Voice
When creating social media content, consider how to match your brand’s voice and tone. Use your brand voice guide as a reference to ensure consistency and authenticity in all your posts. While brand voice matters, it’s a consistent brand voice over time that will allow you to reap the great rewards from the time you invest in social media. As you engage with your audience, you want it to feel authentic all the way through each piece of content.
Best Examples of Brand Voice on Social Media
Some brands have mastered the art of using social media to showcase their unique voice and personality. For example, Wendy’s Twitter account is known for its witty one-liners and sassy responses to followers. Even their bio lends this attitude! “We like our tweets the way we like our fries: hot, crispy, and better than anyone expects from a fast food restaurant.”
While witty social media is entertaining, consider if your chosen voice is truly authentic to you. Most of us don’t have the marketing budget of a Wendy’s and if clever one-liners don’t come naturally to you, it could start feeling like the digital marketing equivalent of a mask you have to put on each time you post.
Creating Content that Matches Your Brand Voice
The Marketer’s Role in Developing Your Brand Voice
Marketers play a crucial role in creating and maintaining a brand’s voice and tone. They should work with the brand’s stakeholders to define the brand voice and ensure it’s consistently reflected in all content marketing efforts.
There are many brands that produce content that perfectly matches their brand’s voice and personality. For example, Nood, a personal-use laser hair removal tool, has a reputation for double entendres and crafts incredibly clever social media posts and ads. Given that hair removal is often wanted around sensitive areas, they’ve boldly used balls and landing strips in their social posts–and the company’s leaders stand by their marketing team when the comments get a bit heated.
Your content voice will be used over extensive time, so it’s important to get this right and that may mean starting small. Slowly incorporating personality over time and turning up the volume on unique components will allow your marketing team (even if that’s just you!) to embrace a distinct brand.
How to Make Your Content Match Your Unique Brand Voice
When creating content, use your brand voice guide as a reference for the tone, language, and messaging that resonates with your target audience. Also, don’t be afraid to get creative and inject your brand’s personality into your content.
Walking through an exercise to determine what your creation style is, comparing it to celebrities that use a similar style, and then poring through content from that celebrity is a good way to learn how to develop an authentic voice. This is a learning-by-doing exercise that Eliya and Britney describe in this podcast episode.
Creating a brand voice and tone guide is a critical step in establishing a memorable, authentic, and consistent brand experience. When done right, it can help your brand stand out in a sea of sameness and establish a connection with your target audience.
Frequently Asked Questions
How does a successful marketer find her voice and personality in her writing?
Eliya Finkelstein found her voice and personality in her writing by realizing the pain of not standing out was worse than the pain of stepping out and being bold. She embraced this by going “balls to the wall” with personality and voice on her sales page for a group membership with her business partner, which helped her to find her unique writing style.
How can you incorporate elements from celebrities into your copywriting?
Eliya Finkelstein incorporated elements from celebrities like Deadpool, Kate McKinnon, and Lizzo into her copywriting to create a memorable and distinct voice, embracing certain notes from each. She’s also asked ChatGPT to analyze pieces of her writing she’s proud of and define the writing style, then used these adjectives as part of her brand personality.
What does Eliya Finkelstein recommend when adding personality to copywriting?
Eliya Finkelstein recommends starting with what makes you comfortable when adding personality to copywriting, recognizing specific things that make you unique, and turning up the volume on them.
What does Eliya Finkelstein think about using AI in copywriting?
Eliya Finkelstein thinks that using AI in copywriting can enhance creativity and individuality if used properly, but if used as a crutch or replacement for creativity, it will lead to being in a larger and more identifiable sea of sameness.
[Tweet “We make the barrier of entry to having a strong voice of personality in our copy and our content a lot higher than it actually is.
– Eliya Finkelstein”]
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Britney Gardner [00:00:06]: This is a show about content marketing for established, sophisticated online businesses. Unlike other shows about marketing, we focus on sustainable, measurable content creation. How to authentically automate your marketing, to build up your know, like and trust factor with a nurtured, engaged audience between launches and get back to actually living your life instead of working to live. Hey. Hey, friends. We are continuing on with our all the Feels series, and we're going to be talking about injecting personality into the content and copy that you are creating for your online business. Why are we talking about this in the all the Feels series? Well, as you're about to hear in our interview, there is a lot of feelings. There are all these things that come up when we talk about really showing you your authentic view, building your own voice, what even is a brand voice?
Eliya Finkelstein [00:01:04]: Right?
Britney Gardner [00:01:04]: These are all things that we're going to cover in this interview with Elliot Finkelstein. Elliott and our business partner Chrissy are data driven growth consultants who support their clients through Rebellion, their hybrid program and resource hub that helps innovative entrepreneurs autonomously scale. She comes with almost 15 years of experience in marketing and a specialty in messaging, positioning, and conversion copywriting, where she supported clients in making millions while communicating their genius with clarity and personality. And personality is what we're talking about the most here. So let's hop right on into the interview so you can start ingesting the gold that Elliott drops. All right. Eliya, welcome.
Eliya Finkelstein [00:01:42]: Hi. Thank you for having me. I'm so excited to be here.
Britney Gardner [00:01:45]: I'm really looking forward to this conversation. I love talking about all this kind of stuff with you, so that's obviously always going to help. Obviously, in addition to all that, we're fans of a lot of the same things, so I feel like we always have good thought provoking conversations and I'm really eager to share that with the audience.
Eliya Finkelstein [00:02:04]: Yeah. I feel like we're like two peas in a pod, like, same person, but on different sides of the United States.
Britney Gardner [00:02:12]: Well, that seems to be the case with me and everybody on the show.
Eliya Finkelstein [00:02:16]: Great. Awesome. That's why it works so well.
Britney Gardner [00:02:19]: I know it's good. Well, I don't know that everyone is a pee in the pod with me, but they're all on the opposite side of the country, put it that way. Yeah.
Eliya Finkelstein [00:02:28]: Anyway, let's do it.
Britney Gardner [00:02:29]: Let's dive into using your voice and finding your voice and being confident with showing up with your voice and all of that fun stuff.
Eliya Finkelstein [00:02:38]: Is that cool? Yeah, let's do it.
Britney Gardner [00:02:40]: All right. So how do you do it?
Eliya Finkelstein [00:02:41]: Isn't that the question of the hour? I wish that I really had an easy answer for this. I keep thinking this through and being like, yeah, here's the steps to just being really confident and thinking in my life. Like my own journey, thinking back of, like, this is when it all changed for me. And I just don't think that's the case. I just don't think that's the case. I think it's a process. I think finding your voice is a process. But when I look back and I realized it was not easy and confident, it was not always so easy, and I did not always feel so confident bringing my voice to our brand at all. This has been a journey for me, but when I look back, I remember feeling frustrated that I felt like I didn't have anything to say in the online world. And I remember getting to a point where I felt like, oh, my gosh, it's a sea of sameness, and I'm just blending in with all of it. And when I think about that, I'm like, that was probably a turning point for me of where I was like, okay, going to have to step it up a little bit. Going to have to ramp it up a little bit. I think at least like, a tiny bit. A tiny bit. And what I've learned I was thinking about this this afternoon. What I've learned since then is so when I back then, I was like, really? I got to this period where I couldn't say anything. I just was, like, stifled, and I couldn't say anything. It wasn't just that I didn't have a great voice. I had no voice at all. Like, I had none. I didn't know what I was going to say. I would sit in front of my computer and think, I would create some kind of content, do something, and then nothing would happen. Absolutely nothing would happen. And now that I'm on this side of it, I realize that the barrier to and we make the barrier to entry, of having a strong voice of personality in our copy and our content a lot higher than it actually is.
Britney Gardner [00:04:35]: Yeah, I think it's this idea that you have to have something that impresses you before you can actually say anything at all.
Eliya Finkelstein [00:04:42]: Correct.
Britney Gardner [00:04:43]: I mean, it's like a self unfulfilling prophecy. That's probably not a phrase, but how can you get to something that impresses your own self ever? Because there's this journey that you have to go on to start learning cool things and doing cool things up, leveling your skill, working with people, that takes time. And I don't know about you, but there is no point of my almost 20 year long entrepreneurial journey where I have been like, yeah, no, it's cool. I've arrived.
Eliya Finkelstein [00:05:15]: Wouldn't that be nice?
Britney Gardner [00:05:16]: It would be nice.
Eliya Finkelstein [00:05:17]: Or like, you have a half a moment, right? Every now and then you get a great win, and you're like, is this it? And then immediately something happens. You're like, oh, no, just kidding. There's more. And I think with like, the thing for me was I looked around and I saw these people that I loved, how much voice and personality that they brought to their content. And I was just like, that was my gold standard, and I felt like I needed to make that happen in one fell swoop. And that is when I think about how it actually happened, I'm like, oh, no, it's so much easier. It's like anything else. When you put it in a silo and you look at a brand in terms of its colors, right? There's, like, five colors or whatever that they have on their brand palette. Well, the entirety of that brand is all those colors put together. It's not like just one of those colors, but it started with one piece. Like, it started with one color, and then you add another, and that's what makes it better. And you add another, and that's what makes it better. And I thought I had to have everything, all the colors sorted out first. And then I realized I only needed to do one thing. I had to add one piece of personality or one interesting piece of voice or one little piece of the puzzle, and that put me ahead of everybody else who was still using no color. That was the only thing I had to do. And all of a sudden, I was like, oh, wait a minute. I don't have to be as good as those people who I'm aspiring to, who have amazing voice and personality, because they've stacked all of this personality stuff. I only need, like, one of them first, and now I've got, like, three or four or five.
Britney Gardner [00:06:59]: So I love that analogy. I'm fairly into painting.
Eliya Finkelstein [00:07:04]: You get color.
Britney Gardner [00:07:05]: I get color, right? But I saw this reel on Instagram a couple of nights ago when I was doing my Aimless scrolling in my art Instagram account, which, for the record, I find very relaxing. It's not like if I do Aimless scrolling in my business account, which tends to be stressful, I love just looking at other people do art. I find it so enjoyable and so inspiring. And anyway, all that said, I found it was an Ad, I think, actually, and it was an art supplier, like a Blick or like a Michael's or whatever. And they were demoing one of their colors. It was a particular shade of gray. And they were saying, this is how you get a cohesive color palette. And they slapped down five splotches of this exact same shade of gray, and then they went and added in five brighter, different tones. They had all the fancy paint names, like Phthalamine and things like that, but one of them was like, a yellow, one of them was a bold violet, one of them was a blue. And then they mixed it with that gray, and they showed all five at the end of the video in line, much like a brand card would be. And it was such a beautiful palette, and I was like, I would decorate my entire house in those five colors now, because they went together, they flowed nicely, right? And they all started with that one shade.
Eliya Finkelstein [00:08:28]: Yeah, that's a much better analogy than.
Britney Gardner [00:08:30]: The one I no, it just layers.
Eliya Finkelstein [00:08:33]: On top of it. But that's what I mean. It really is a much better analogy. I thought I had to have the whole palette figured out before I had anything, before I could open my mouth. I thought the whole palette had to be completely done and beautiful and stunning and different and new and unique and vibrant and memorable before it was worth me going to the canvas. Right. I thought that had to happen first, and that is not the way it happens. You start with the gray. You start with the one simple gray. And for me, it was I started with just knowing that I had ideas, I had things to say, like, regardless of how well I said them, regardless of how colorful they were, if they were even memorable, it was like, I just have stuff to say. And in a world of not sea of sameness, I have some different things to say. I have some contrarian opinions. I don't believe everything everybody else is saying, and I just started with that as, like, my base. And over time, I figured out what each of those additional kind of, like, colors were that I could add to this base to create the full palette. And now I hopefully people come to our brand, and it is really memorable, and it is a full palette, full of personality and voice and everything we bring to the table. But it did not start that way. And it was me recognizing that I didn't have to have the whole palette that I could start with, that Grace Bay of what I wanted to say, that base gray of what I wanted to say and work on trying to understand how to just keep adding a little color every time I went back to the canvas. This analogy is getting really out of control, Brittany, but we're just how to just keep adding a little bit more until I really had this something that is much more vibrant. And that changed everything for me because, again, it lowered that barrier of entry into me feeling like I had to show up as perfectly as some as you do at a campus. That's not going to happen for me. Right. So, yeah, that lowered that barrier hugely.
Britney Gardner [00:10:35]: Okay, you moved past this barrier. You realized, I have something to say, and it's at least a little bit different than other people. You started talking out there. You started getting, I assume, some reactions, some feedback of some sort. What was the moment where you were like, I have something to say. I'm saying it. Oh, and people are listening.
Eliya Finkelstein [00:10:56]: I think it probably was the very first time I wrote a blog post, like, maybe four plus years ago. In fact, I don't even know if it even lives out there on the ether anywhere. That was a long time ago, and it was when I was purely copywriting. Copywriting was everything that I was doing. And I wrote a blog post specifically about how I didn't believe that pain points were the only way you could write copy. I was like, do they have a place in your copywriting? Sure. Do they need to be something that you manipulate and twist and turn? No, I don't think so. And I wrote this blog post about how you could use pain as an identifier instead of as a manipulator. And I had one friend who read the blog post that wasn't my mom. To this day, she gave me the best feedback on it. She was like, I've been looking for someone to say that I don't have to use pain all the time. I just needed someone to tell me that that was okay. And that was, like a big, strong stance that I took. And to this day, she still references that. I'm still really good close friends with her. She still will reference it and be like, that changed so much for me, because you took a really clear stance on something. And it was probably the first time that I sat down to write something where it wasn't just an opinion, but it was pretty close to the heart for me. So it had a lot more of my voice and my personality in it. And I wrote it for me. I didn't write it for anyone else. I wrote it because I needed to say it. And I was sick of saying it over and over and over again. And I think we live in a world where people keep telling us, like, don't go seeking external validation, but half of marketing and copywriting and messaging is external validation or not. That feedback is incredibly important to tell us we're on the right path. So I think that was kind of the very first time. And then when I got partnered with Chrissy, who's my business partner, who, you know, in data driven Rebel, the first real piece of copy that I went balls to the wall with, just wild with personality and voice, was our sales page for Rebellion, which is our group membership. And you probably don't even know this. She screenshotted something that you messaged her that was like, I love this sales page. I don't remember what you said. You said something to her, and she sent it to me. And I was like, oh, I can actually go this ball to the wall on something. And people, the right people, appreciate it and see it because I just have so much respect for you. And I was like, Wait a minute. So we can actually keep going on this train of that branded language, because that was probably the strongest piece of branded language that was full of personality that I had ever done up until that point. And that was maybe a year, and a half year and a few months ago.
Britney Gardner [00:13:48]: I did not know that, first of all. So I feel oddly important right now. I don't know what to say. That's awesome. I love that. I respond really well to great, you know what I mean? Like great things out there. When I see something that is unique in the sea of sameness that we all kind of live in, right. It's going to take notice. And that notice doesn't always mean I'm going to like it. Actually, I think the episode will end up being a few episodes after after this episode. So I'm teasing here without trying to, but I have an episode coming out where I actually talk about reading a sales page that by all intents and purposes, I should have loved. The one liner in an email that led me to that sales page, had me saying, yes, sign me up, I'll find the money. And then I got to the sales page and I was like, Meh? Uninterested. Wow. I know, right? I think it lacked the personality that you and I are talking about here. I think it lacked the willing to go there ness if we want to make that a whole new word phrase. And ultimately it was a failure of a sales page to me. Now, maybe that's fine, maybe I was not the intended recipient and in the end, maybe that one liner in the email was pulling me in, but the rest of it filtered me out and that's okay, right? But I like anyone who's willing to go there. And that's why I wanted you on the show, obviously, because I wanted to talk about how to do that. Because I think a lot of us get in our heads, right? We get in our heads and say, no, I can't say that. That's not professional and that's one aspect. Or I can't say that so and so is going to judge me, even if it's not like an issue of being professional or not or we think, I can't say that. Who am I to dare to say something like that? And there's all of these feelings that get in the way. But you did it and you've had, as far as I know, pretty good results, not just with that sales page, but plenty of other things along the way.
Eliya Finkelstein [00:15:49]: Yeah, you make such a good point and I'm not going to stand here and pretend to say that I just figured it all out. Listen, my therapist makes good money to help me figure some of this because there is a whole piece of it that has to be you being okay with those kinds of things. There is a whole piece of it that for me was the work. And I'm not going to lie and say it was just easy and it just came so naturally. It was work, it took time. But I really did just start at what is kind of the minimum viable piece that I can put in here? What is the smallest piece of personality? What is the smallest side note or quip or witty, sarcastic remark that I can put in here? And then it took time to stretch and turn the volume up on that. It took practice of doing it over and over again and being validated to feel more comfortable, to get to the place where I just felt like that sales page was I was comfortable enough to get baldy. And I got to a place, and I think a lot of people get to this place where you recognize that you have something of value to say, but it keeps getting lost because you're saying it in the same way everybody else is saying it. And at some point, what you have to say, mattering has to be stronger of a pull so that you do stand out than what people might think. And I recognized that if we wanted to attract the people like you, if we wanted that kind of high vibe, intelligent, accomplished individual in our program, we had to we had to come out in this way to get seen and to get noticed. And I didn't want to do it in a way that was disingenuous to our values, or disingenuous to what we believe in, or disingenuous to who I was. But thankfully, we spent that time to really establish that piece. The identity of who we are is already there. It was just a matter of taking those again, those three or four components that make Chrissy and I unique in our personality and how we talk and how we interact, and turning the volume up on them to, like, ten. We might have even turned it up to 50. Like we really turned the volume up as as high as we could because it was more important to me to get the results I wanted that copy to get than to worry about who it was not going to attract or who it was going to push away or who it was going to because I didn't want it to just pass people by. I wanted people just like you to stop and be like, Damn, hold on a minute.
Britney Gardner [00:18:39]: This is different.
Eliya Finkelstein [00:18:39]: This is new. I want to know what this is about. That mattered more. That just mattered more to me.
Britney Gardner [00:18:45]: Yeah, I think you hit the nail bed. I feel like the same in content. Like, when I've worked with clients and they're like, oh, I don't know if I want to say that. It always makes me pause, and I'm like, I can't care about it more than they do. They have to. And I think we've heard about that. We've heard about that in terms of mental health. We've heard about that more. And having our kids do sports, and we've heard about it. And all the things right, like, I can't care more than you do. You have to put something of yourself into this. And I think you just really succinctly hit that nail on the head there.
Eliya Finkelstein [00:19:20]: Oh, sorry. Go ahead.
Britney Gardner [00:19:21]: No, go ahead. Okay.
Eliya Finkelstein [00:19:23]: Again, it's not like I have to go there. You have to go there. First time out of the gate. I get it, everybody needs to stretch. But it's like make that part of the process that you are going to care enough to stretch enough to find those little fragments, little pieces that you want to turn up to ten or eleven. That's the process. Again, when I say like barrier to entry, it's not like you have to figure it all out the first time you get out the door. But you have to be willing to care enough to stand out or you risk. The risk is that you just drown in the sea of sameness. And you know what, if that's your choice, that's your choice. But most people I think give a shit enough, have enough of that, that they don't want that that's what they're trying desperately to avoid. So then you have to stretch the other way.
Britney Gardner [00:20:14]: Yeah, I'm not going to content there because you wrap that up. I want to switch gears just a little bit because I do want to talk about AI with you. And the reason I want to talk about it with you is because I started seeing all these things happen. I'm still kind of in the photography world from like my almost ten years ago now previous career. And they're up in arms, the AI image generators. I'm obviously in the copy world along with you, the content world. People are up in their arms about things. And I don't know that I would call myself an early adopter as like a personality type, but I saw the potential in a lot of things and I got excited, but I didn't know how.
Eliya Finkelstein [00:20:56]: Right?
Britney Gardner [00:20:57]: And I've seen you give a lot of really good instruction on how to use AI, but not lose yourself in the process. And before I ask you about that, I've gone on record, I've gone on record on this podcast already about talking about this race to the bottom. If we're all using the same AI SEO tool, then the score that you're trying to be at 78 needs to be 82 next month, and then the next month it needs to be 85 and then so on. And eventually everyone's copy is going to be so SEO good or whatever that it's not going to rank. And if that's your only goal, good luck. I mean, you enjoy that. But I think that is the conversation for people who are not still injecting themselves into the content, into the copy, into the images, into whatever we are talking about in this way. So I'd love to hear your general thoughts and then I'll kind of circle back and reference my favorite thing that.
Eliya Finkelstein [00:21:56]: You'Ve taught me, my thought on this is it going to change things? Absolutely early. Kind of what I'm seeing early on is, listen, I can tell you what's written by AI now. I can see it. I can totally, totally see it. And what it is, is so there's one way to look at it which is going to make everything more difficult. That's kind of one way to look at it, right. The other way to look at it is all we've done is sort of got a baseline for sea of sameness. So, again, your ability to ramp up your personality is only, in my opinion, going to be more effective. Because right now I can tell what's written by AI. I go scrolling Facebook, and I'm like, that was AI. That was AI. I can see it. So it's how you choose to use the tool, because it's a tool, not a complete solution for an end result. It's simply a tool. And I know that when it came out, there was a lot of concern about that. It was going to completely erode creativity. This is the end of creativity for humanity. And you and I both love Adam Grant, so of course he's going to show up in this podcast, one of the first episodes he did on Chat GPT, and he was really concerned, is this going to be the end of authors? And I had been thinking about this a lot, and someone in that podcast I wish I can remember, but details are not my thing, I don't remember them. Someone basically in the podcast said something along the lines of, and I have certainly adopted this, that I don't believe that AI is going to become the ceiling for creativity. I believe it's going to become the new floor. Because as humans, we can take what AI has created and think and create in new ways. So, for me, creatively, I have a max of output, even in my copy, that I can do in a single setting, in a single sitting, and certainly even in my lifetime, there's a max of what I can do. So you're going to get, on my best day, something real great, and on my worst day, it's going to be like that sales page you read that's like, no, it's not going to be great. When I use something like Chat GPT or other AI tools, what it does is it takes that ceiling away from me. There no longer is a ceiling. And so it allows me to take my creativity to a completely different level. And if you're using it in that way as a tool to enhance your voice, enhance your personality, enhance the way you deliver that information, I think it's only a tool for better that can help you stand out from that sea of sameness faster. Again, another way to reduce that barrier to entry, if you use it as a crutch or a replacement for your creativity, you are only going to end up in that now larger and almost more identifiable sea of sameness that we're seeing. So I think sort of big picture. That's how I see it, how I look at it. But now I really want to know what the thing is that I've taught you.
Britney Gardner [00:25:01]: Yeah, well, you've taught me several things. So everyone, if you want to learn cool stuff like go find Elliott, there's links in the show notes, we'll do that. But the thing that I would say hit a really good light bulb moment in my head was when you said, go plug in one of your favorite pieces of writing, or maybe even your least favorite, because that's as equally instructional bright. But go plug it into Chat GPT and ask Chat GPT to analyze it for your tone and then ask it to say, what? Celebrities have a similar tone. And I have done that, and I've gotten different answers from different pieces of writing, which is also really good to know, right? But my favorite one was when it said, I write a lot like Neil degrasse Tyson, and I was like, he's freaking brilliant, so I will take that. Thank you. I don't think that I'm brilliant like him. That's not what I'm saying. I was writing like Neil degrasse Tyson in a way that takes complex topics and breaks them down into bite sized learnable pieces in a calm and respectful and sometimes sarcastic manner. And I'm very much paraphrasing the answer I got back here. And I was like, I love that description of what I do because I really think that is a good superpower of mine. And then I was like, well, that's cool. But I do like being sarcastic, and I don't actually consider him to be all that sarcastic unless you really look for the dry wit.
Eliya Finkelstein [00:26:33]: Right?
Britney Gardner [00:26:33]: And I didn't want mine to be quite so hidden. I was like, well, how can I judge this up? How can I do this? And I started thinking about some of the comedians I like and I love. Of all the late night hosts, jimmy Kimmel is probably like my favorite in terms of tone and in terms of other comedian type TV writers, I've always loved Mindy Kaling, and I was like, well, how can I combine those?
Eliya Finkelstein [00:26:54]: Right?
Britney Gardner [00:26:54]: So I started looking at all of these people's works. I started reading through all of them, and I'm like, okay, so this person phrases things more like this. This person has asides or quips that look like that. And I started more naturally writing in those ways by saying, I identify this and I want to do this, and it's not AI doing it for me. Although I do ask for help sometimes, I'll fully admit it. And thank you, because that right there was your tip.
Eliya Finkelstein [00:27:27]: Well, I'm so glad it was helpful. I was going to ask you after you said Neil degrasse Tyson, I was going to say I was going. To ask you, how did that make you feel about the next piece of content that you wrote? Having that validation that you write in that level of ability, how did that change things for you?
Britney Gardner [00:27:46]: It gave me a new bar to rise up against, right? Like, you're having a casual conversation and someone's like, oh, well, that's better than this. And you're like, well, that was a really low bar. I felt the opposite. The next thing I created, I was like, Wait, did I do that? That thing I was so chuffed up about, did I do that? Did I take a complex topic and break it down so it's easy to understand? And I went back and looked at it, and I was like, oh, I could definitely have done that a little bit better. And I went and pulsed it a little bit more.
Eliya Finkelstein [00:28:15]: Yeah, and that validation, right? To put in a piece of something that you've done and have it come back and be like, you write at this level, or you explain topics at this level. You then go into the next piece with more confidence. Again, we've changed the ceiling. The ceiling is no longer the ceiling. It's the floor. It's not like, Am I as good as that person anymore? It's like, oh, I can actually write at a level similar to that person. So now, how can I keep raising the bar? How can I keep hitting for higher? I love that. I think that's such a great yeah, that's so great. I love that this is part of what I do in our brand and probably how you know, I don't remember what I specifically said, but yeah, when I was talking to you about this. But this is part of what I do is I know who some of our celebrity kind of archetypes or whatever are in terms of their language patterns. I know who they are. I'm very clear on who they are. For us, we have three major ones. So it's Lizzo, who's incredibly inspirational and motivational, who I love and adore anyways. Kate McKinnon, who is just freaking hilarious, SNL comedian. I love her. I think she's so funny and really on the verge of being, like, sometimes really actually inappropriate.
Britney Gardner [00:29:30]: That's us.
Eliya Finkelstein [00:29:31]: Sometimes we're kind of inappropriate. We say things all the time where I'm like, oh, my gosh, did that just come out of our mouths? So her and deadpool. Because there's something that Deadpool does that I love, that I have been doing. But again, when I put it into Chat GPT and said, analyze it and give me back these celebrities, and I got Deadpool as one of them, and I said, Why Deadpool? I recognized what that one little piece, that one little color was. That and then I could add more into my palette, which is Deadpool breaks the fourth wall. And that is something that I do in Copy all the time. It's like I'm constantly doing these side quips. They're usually inappropriate, like a little sarcasm on the side or little side comment or a little witty remark about something that was part of what I love about Deadpool. That's part of what I wanted in our copy. And so I took these again, these little pieces from all these people, and you put them together and you just need a good idea, like a tiny little piece of Deadpool with that witty remark, tiny little piece of Kate McKinnon with something that's just on the line of inappropriate. And the two of those together just makes like a magical magic. And then Lizzo, that little piece of inspiration and motivation and making people feel good. I've got my full palette. I don't need to do 8 million more things. And if I just stick with those, I think that's what makes us really memorable. And so, yeah, that's the thing, is to take your writing and go into Chat GPT and say, analyze this language and which celebrities does it match? Who does it match? And the other one is if you're not sure if you're struggling to find that color palette, sometimes it just helps to also say, tell me a celebrity who is known for witty, sarcastic remarks, kind of quips on the side, but is also inspirational and motivational and get that first and then go back in the same thread. Say okay. Great. Now tell me the language patterns of that celebrity. What are they known for in terms of how they either execute their comedy or whatever it might be, to give you some of those really clear parameters around how to add that personality into your copy. It works both ways. It works really well.
Britney Gardner [00:31:55]: I love that because most people would not put Deadpool and Lizzo in the same just for the right. And it's funny because you can say that and I can look at things I've read from you guys and I 100% get it. I'm like, yeah, that fits. Whereas if I were to take an email I wrote for my podcast for the list and say, I'm going to write it like Deadpool, it would come across so abundantly inauthentic.
Eliya Finkelstein [00:32:22]: Right? Because that is correct.
Britney Gardner [00:32:24]: I love the movies. Ryan Reynolds is a freaking genius, man. I can't be that. I'm never there never going to be there. And that's not just, okay, it's good. We need different kinds of people and we need different kinds of voices out there.
Eliya Finkelstein [00:32:41]: Yeah, absolutely. And like I say, it's like you start with where you feel comfortable. When I started with breaking that fourth wall and copy, I didn't even recognize. It was something that I did I didn't know. Something that I did sort of maybe once in an email, maybe once every now and then you recognize those things and it's again, it's about turning up the volume on those pieces. And it's going to be different for everybody. And there are times when I'm like, probably Deadpool right now is not the best choice. So maybe he doesn't make that part, doesn't make an appearance in every single piece of copy that we write, but it's about knowing what those specific pieces are that make you you. First, again, understanding the identity, understanding the opinion, understanding what you believe in and then being comfortable enough to explore a couple of those pieces that make you unique in your voice, in your personality. And then we stretch them. Then you turn the volume up on them. Then you get more geeky and talk about planets and galaxies. I don't know. I'm just saying all that jazz. Then you start doing whatever. And the other piece that I'll say is like, if I went to Chat GPT right now and I can tell you because I use Deadpool all the time and I ask it to write me something in Deadpool's voice, I guarantee you it's going to talk about chimichangas and tacos at least once. That has nothing to do with my brand. It has no place in my brand. But it will spit out stuff that's hilarious also that I'll take with and run. So it's about understanding those components. But AI will never replace how you implement them. It should never replace how you implement them. It should never replace how you stretch them to fit what you need them to. So that's where the magic really lives for me.
Britney Gardner [00:34:30]: I think that's a really great place to kind of close this conversation. Thank you. This has been amazing. I can't wait to hear the feedback that we get on this episode. I'll have links for you for Rebellion, all of that fun stuff in the show notes. Anything else you want to leave us with.
Eliya Finkelstein [00:34:47]: Don't be afraid of AI and don't be afraid to use it as a tool to help you become more creative in your voice. It is not a tool that has to constrict you. It can be a tool that becomes the new floor. It can be a tool that expands you. That's the big thing right now is.
Britney Gardner [00:35:05]: How can you do that? Love it.
Eliya Finkelstein [00:35:07]: Thank you so much for having me.
Britney Gardner [00:35:08]: You are so welcome. Thank you for making the time for all of us. All right, once again, thank you so much, Elliot. I really appreciate and I know I kind of threw you under the bus there saying how long it took you to get on the podcast, but I think it worked out. This was a fantastic conversation. You guys already heard in the interview. I'm a member of their Rebellion community. I truly enjoy it. It is one of the best parts of my week and it's a place I know that I can go to for real advice on marketing specific things as well as sometimes life. Did our call earlier today happen to talk about gluten free foods I can feed my child? Yes. Yes, it did. Things happen. We're real people, and our real people lives inform our business. And that's one of the things I love about this conversation as a whole. Yes, you are a marketer. Yes, you are in business, and you use marketing as a thing to grow your business. But you're a real person and everything you do needs to support each other and weave through really easily so you can continue doing the great work that you do with that. I will see you guys next week. If you found value from this episode, there are two things you can do to thank me. The first is share it with a friend. If you enjoyed this episode, you learned something from it. Odds are you know somebody who needs to hear this message. I do truly believe that a rising tide lifts all boats, and if you help that friend with something that they need to do, we're going to have less crappy marketers out there, which means less scams, and we get to help more people in those ways that we uniquely are meant to help them. The second thing you can do is leave a rating on whichever podcast app you are listening to the show on right now. Doing that helps me reach more people, getting again this same great information out there, and we all make a better, happier, effective and ethical world as a result. Thanks so much. See you next week.
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Music by Michael De La Torre. Thanks, Mikey!