Britney Gardner

Hey everyone, today I am going to be interviewing Patty Zorr. She and I have known each other for a while we've worked together. And I'm actually really excited because I've never talked with anyone about book funnels and how to remarket your book and use a book to connect more deeply with your audience. And this is one of the big ways that people are excelling today. So. So about Patti, do you dream of becoming a best selling author? You likely wrote a book because you wanted to help others and perhaps change lives? You have a message to share with the world? And are you making your sure that your readers can hear it? Paddy's aura is the book marketing marketing strategist who thrives on helping authors scale their business with their book, she works with self published authors launching their first book and traditionally published New York Times bestselling authors supporting them with strategy, timelines, advanced reader campaigns and book funnels, as well as other things. So with that said, let's dive into our talk.

Britney Gardner 0:03

Hey, hey Patty, welcome to the no I can trade show.

Patti Zorr 0:06

Hey, Brittany, thank you so much for having me, I am honored to be here with you today.

Britney Gardner 0:12

I'm actually like, kind of geeking out a little bit about this one. So for our listeners, Patti and I have known each other through various online programs for a while, but we finally met about six months ago or so. And, you know, did the conference thing that I always love doing, which is, yeah, we went to the conference. But then we went and had a good drink at the bar, and really got to know each other. And I love having people on the show when I have that personal relationship, because I know where you're coming from when you're when you're saying things. And I love the passion that you have for helping authors and doing book launches. So with that said, Mind giving us a little brief little history as to how you got to where you are today.

Patti Zorr 0:53

Yeah, actually, this was such a great segue, because really, I'm here today because of somebody I actually met at a conference several years ago. So take note, I know going to conferences, sometimes you feel awkward, you're alone, you don't know anybody, it seems like everybody else knows everybody else. But hey, take a minute and insert yourself because you never know that people that you meet at the conference may come back in your life in your business, at some point. And for me, it was actually six years later. So I was at a conference, a social media conference. At the time, I actually worked for a company in the consumer goods industry and was a digital marketing manager for them. And so every year, we get to go to a couple of conferences on the company's dime, which is always nice. And in that conference, I had actually met a woman who designed websites, but we kept in touch online through social media, I went back to my job in the corporate world. And it was about five years later, I was ready just to do something different, I really just wasn't fulfilled, I was in my cubicle and just thought, There's got to be something else out there for me. And I actually started learning meditation. And because I knew, I knew there was something and I couldn't figure it out what it was, and discovered meditation that, okay, I'm gonna give it a try, right? And started just practicing, and just even really doing five minutes a day and just kind of learned to just release and let go. And the answer will reveal itself just have trust. And of course, started reaching out to my network and asking people, you know, hey, what do you guys do in these days, and, and just trying to get a feel for what I wanted to do next, I really wasn't sure. And so this woman was one of the people in my network. And I had connected with her. And I had followed her social posts and really sort of liked what she was doing. And she says, Hey, I have some authors I'm working with, would you want to come and help me do their marketing strategy for their book launches? And I thought, Okay, why not. And so it was great, because it was a great opportunity for me to take that step out of the corporate world, and to starting my own business and working for her and learning the business a little bit more and marketing with authors. And I've got to work with six figure authors to authors who are traditionally published or self published, and really saw that there's a huge need for authors, because right there authors, your, your writers, you're experts in your field, but you're not necessarily a marketer. And you have a book and you have to think of your book as a product, really, and you have just like any product or service, you have to market it, you have to go out there, and you need to tell people about it. And so I just see these authors out there who have these great books, and they poured their heart and soul into hundreds of pages of content. And yet nothing happens. And it's because they didn't have a marketing strategy behind that or to back it up. So yeah, that's my story at that time I was in the corporate world went into business on my own, but it all started with a connection I had made at a conference years ago. So here we are today. It's funny how the universe works.

Britney Gardner 4:28

I love that and you know, I am I know this from you know, off off recording if I want to call it that. But you shared with me a while back a statistic that I was just floored by. And shame on me. I didn't do my homework and look it up before we hopped on zoom here, but most authors only sell sell how many copies of their

Patti Zorr 4:50

books. So most authors will sell an average of 250 books in their lifetime in their lifetime. And the other thing And behind that is if you're selling through Amazon, if you're self published, even if you're traditionally published, Amazon wants their cut, your publisher wants their cut. So you may sell 250 books, but you're maybe making $5 a book. So here you are. Maybe you spent years writing this book, maybe you spent a weekend some people could do it in a weekend. The point is that you you did spend all this time and you had, you know, to just sell 250 books and make five bucks a book, it's, you know, can be really disappointing and heartbreaking. I think when you Yeah.

Britney Gardner 5:38

Yeah, I mean, yeah, talking about disheartening, right, like, Yeah, so 250, you're making five bucks a book, and you're not even pulling in, like $1,500. And, I mean, I'm the person, maybe I'm the jerk. We'll see what people think about those, right. But I'm the jerk that that, you know, if you price, you know, something at you know, $2,000 per project, or $1,500 per project. And you tell me, it's only going to take three hours of active time and maybe two hours of prep time. I'm like, Oh, $1,500. Okay, five hours, $300 an hour plus, you know, that encompasses your lifetime of learning your skill set. That seems pretty good to me. Like if you're offering a good value, a good transformation for your person. That seems great. But I think you and I both know that writing a book is not only five hours, like if you start doing the math on I mean, I don't know what the average average author takes in terms of a time investment. But I cannot imagine writing a book spending, you know, 100 hours on it, and then only making $1,500, it would, it would be disheartening in that sense that you feel like people aren't interested in your material. But also you'd be like, so I made a buck 50 an hour. Okay, that's, that's fine. Yeah.

Patti Zorr 6:54

And sometimes, you know, authors say, Well, I just want to get on stages, right. And a book will absolutely help you get on stages and make you the authority on your subject. But there are some fun things we can do, actually, with your book, to help drive more sales for your business. And one of the really cool things that I like to talk to my clients about is QR codes. So thank you, COVID. We all know what a QR code is now and how to use it. Because back in the day, actually, to use QR codes. And this was just a few years ago, you would have to download a separate app, and then open up the app and then scan the QR code and hope that it worked to then get to the link. But thankfully, technology has evolved, evolved, and every consumer out there, we all know how to use a QR code. And so what I'm advising my clients to do is, as they're writing their books, or even re launching their books, drop a QR code in there. Because the really cool thing is, you know, once once you have a book, you're always marketing books, and books have a long shelf life, you know, it's, it's hard to throw a book away, it almost feels like last one is sent away. It's, I don't know, it feels so wasteful. So we donate books to friends and family, we put them in little libraries, which are popping up all over neighborhoods everywhere we forget them on airplanes, or we leave them on the bus or on the train, whatever it might be. So you never know who could be absorbing your content, who's reading your content, who's reading your book. So by dropping a QR code in there is a great way you can gate it. So you write and I think there's human curiosity like, Okay, what's behind this QR code, it's a great way to actually connect with your reader and really build that relationship with your reader. Because behind that QR code, you want to gate it. So now you're asking the reader to opt in, they're putting their name and email. So now you know who your reader is. But now you're serving them information that's useful. So let's say you were writing a book on mindset, for example. And at the end of a chapter, you drop a QR code on a meditation practice. So now you're giving this reader one they're connecting with you, because now you're leading them in this meditation practice. And they're getting additional benefit. So not only did they get this book, but now the books become immersive, and now they're interacting with you. And if you think about it, a QR code just goes to a web page. So you could you could send them to a funnel if you wanted to, you know, you can send them to something to buy, but I would say really just serve them value, right? Give them downloadable worksheets, or more information on your frameworks or how to really make that transformation from reading your book because, you know, we read books and we get Then, and we can say, Wow, that was a great book. But if it's a self help book, especially, it's like, well, now we're left her own devices to go take those tips and tools we just learned and then apply them. And that's where you had that QR code, give them that extra value, if it's a few short videos, and it may be content that you already have that already exists, right? Give them access to extra tools and worksheets. So they really make that change. Because I think as authors to your goal is really to make an impact with your reader, right, and now, they're going to be more connected to you. And you've now collected their information. So when you are ready to sell them, that next thing they've already built that know, like and trust factor with you, the author, so that sell should be a little bit easier. And you have an audience to sell to.

Britney Gardner 10:51

Well, yeah, I mean, obviously, it's, it's a great way to build your list so that you can contact them again in the future. So that if they didn't leave that book on the airplane, you know, there are, you know, options there. But I like your idea, especially if including a QR code at the end of each chapter or section. Because I'm in I mean, I'm an avid reader, mostly fiction, I definitely look at reading as a hobby, not as always, like, the thing I want to be doing when I'm not in front of a computer working but, but a lot of the fiction books, even these days, they'll have like a reader's guide at the end of the book. And I'm like, not interested in that by the end of the book. You know what I mean? If you want me to think more deeply about the content of your book, I'd rather do it while I'm reading. So having like, you know, reader engagement questions at the end of a chapter, or a worksheet, as you were suggesting, or an activity that they could use to deepen the learning that they just had in that book, at the end of that section. That makes perfect sense to me, because like, at that point, me personally, I'm still in it, you know, I'm still I'm still moving on. But at the end of it, I've already gotten that, that sense of accomplishment, and, you know, maybe possibly a personal feeling of mine. But it could be that like, at that point, I'm like, no, no, I finished to be done now. So I feel like, that's a really great way to keep people engaged on top of everything else. Just fantastic.

Patti Zorr 12:12

Yeah, and you know, even for fiction, authors, fiction or nonfiction, there's content that doesn't make the final edit. And you can call it lost content or secret content, right. And so maybe it's information you still want the reader to have, you don't have to throw that away. Yeah, it didn't make the book, you can still give it in, you know, PDF form, if you wanted to, again, just have readers scan that QR code to get access to that last content or that secret content. And I think too, for fiction authors, something really interesting they could try is maybe going into depth more on a particular character. Maybe it might, sometimes I'll read a book, if it's fiction and the you know, the, there's different characters in there. And I want to know more about how that character came to be. But again, you've got a story to tell. And the reader is falling along. And sometimes you can't always, you know, go into depth on on why this character is the why the way they are. And that could be some extra value that you could offer to the reader is like giving them insights on here's how this character came to be or tell their backstory, right? So you can get more into it or or, you know, you can almost do anything I like to say, with QR code, the rule is there are no rules you can you can do anything you want, which I started to love about it.

Britney Gardner 13:31

So, that's one way to build a list with your book, right? Yep. I know from your, your work and like, you know, following you online and everything. And actually, I think you're the first person that really explained it. Well, to me, that Yeah, I know, props to you. You're the first person that explained it. Well, to me that the point of a book isn't necessarily to make money off the book, the point of the book, is to lead people into other ways that you can make money. So if it's okay, I'd like to talk a little bit more about that because I think that was one of those aha moments. For me when it came to book funnels. I'd heard of a book funnel, I didn't really understand the point of it. And I was like, Sure, sure. It's just a way for them to like, you know, sell more books, but I didn't realize that wasn't necessarily the point until I talked with you. So can we do that? Is that cool? Yeah,

Patti Zorr 14:23

absolutely. So I'm like touched on before a book really is it's a product in your business. And you can think of it as just the bottom of your value ladder and I know you've talked a little bit about value ladder before in some of your prior podcasts. You know, it's such a low barrier to entry because it's 999 or you can price the Kindle at whatever price you want. You can price a Kindle at 99 cents. So it's not as if the reader to first connect with you as if they have to spend hundreds of dollars they can live don't really buy a book to do that. What I like to recommend for authors is, you know, we talked about QR codes. But in the back of your book, you can put sales pages back there, put a page about your speaking, put a page about your courses, put a page about webinars or events or masterminds that you do. So it's okay to drop that in the back of the books. And you'll find that a lot of best selling authors are doing that these days. So but yeah, you want to think of your book as its very low barrier to entry, it's the bottom of the value ladder. Now, some authors will use a strategy where they will do free plus shipping. I don't necessarily have my author's lead with that. But it is a strategy that works and has been proven to work. And you can ask readers to opt in the book will, will, they don't have to pay for the book, but essentially, they're paying for shipping, which is anywhere from seven to $11. Or who knows what the cost of gas, it may be up to $15 these days, who knows. But the point is, is that the reader feels like, oh, wow, I'm getting this for free, all you have to do is pay for shipping. And, you know, that's something we can all understand. One of the things that I like to do is I'll build sales pages for my clients, and we'll offer bonuses. So anybody who buys the book, come back, they opt in, put their order number in, they then get access to bonuses that are almost better than the book itself, right, they complement the book. But again, it's a great way to now, like we said, identify your readers build your list, and you know, one of those bonuses could be access to a free group coaching call. Why not because anybody on that coaching call now becomes a warm lead for that next thing you're selling, and there's no reason why you couldn't then present that self study course, or that mastermind or you know, that event to everybody that's on that call. So I do say always lead with value serve first fill that know, like and trust factor. That that's one way yeah, that you could just use your book, it's, you're you're bringing your reader in, you're giving them value, you're getting them to trust you. And now you can start to sell that self study course that compliment the book, that next best thing

Britney Gardner 17:23

I love, specifically, the idea that you could go like, low key and just throw a sales page in at the end of the book. Or you can go a little more high touch, which feels more personal. And I think we'll definitely build the know, like and trust factor in a more, more natural way. But you know, that free coaching call, right? Like, what better way for someone, especially if it's of the self help, or, you know, kind of more like life guidance style book, right? What better way to deepen the content of your book, which you as the author, you know, it's good. I mean, like you, you put your heart and soul into that I'm assuming it's gonna be good, right? But realistically, you know, we hear this all the time, you know, it used to be like, you needed seven touch points with a customer before they usually buy these days, it's closer to 20. Yeah, and that's a lot, right. But, you know, if someone's, if someone's reading a book, I personally think that would count as more than one touch point, because it's, it takes some commitment to go through entire book, rather than, you know, you know, doubletap a heart on three social media posts. But, you know, like, I think I think there's more of a commitment there. But it's still out of sight, out of mind. You know, and I know, for me, like a lot of my my book reading, especially, especially the business book reading, it's often done when my kids are like, next to me watching Paw Patrol, or so you know, my engagement level might not be perfect. And that's just you know, where I am in life and everything. But if I have the ability to hop on a free coaching call with that person, there may be something I should have realized while reading the book and I missed, there may have been something that I was distracted and completely skipped over. Or it could just be that I heard, you know, a nd and I was so floored by A and B, I totally missed. See, I would all have those things happen to each of us while we're reading for various reasons. But you have the opportunity to make sure that people on that call, aren't missing that really big key thing, the thing that's like, in your opinion, the linchpin for how everything else works, right. It gives you that personal touch. And then you know, I always say once people have gotten that win from you, they're not going to look elsewhere for for help on that particular subject.

Patti Zorr 19:37

Yeah, that's right. And I know sometimes authors struggle with, well, gosh, how do I just get readers to begin with, and you can kind of flip that on its head so you could offer a free workshop and again, everybody who attends that free workshop? Why not at the end of the workshop, let people know I have a book and when you buy the book, you're gonna get all all these extra bonuses that come with it Oh, and by the way, even dropped some QR codes in there that have access to these additional trainings. So therefore, yeah, a 995 purchase or 1595, or even 2095, it's sort of just a no brainer, because you've already shown Wow, you gave this free workshop, you gave me value, wow. And you have a book where I can like, take it even further and learn even more, and then you're telling me when I buy your book, now I'm gonna get like all these other bonuses with it, too, it just makes sense. One of the things that I've also worked with on my clients to get readers because a lot of times a lot of authors I work with, they don't have a huge list or a big client database. And so I'll say, you know, what, why don't you share the first chapter with your prospective readers share it everywhere, give it away for free, drop that QR code in there, so that they can opt in and learn more. And now you've given them a little taste of what to expect, you've kind of hook them, perhaps you left them, you know, there's a cliffhanger in there. And now you can start to re market them to that next best thing to either, you know, again, buying the whole book, purchasing the book, you know, or if it's just getting on your list, just growing your list, right. But it's a great way to expose people to your book, get them to read the first chapter, get a taste of it whet their appetite, and then make them want some more.

Britney Gardner 21:25

It's so good. I know you've mentioned several times in the episode about you know, building your list. I know for a lot of authors, that's kind of like a scary thing. They know, they need a list to be seen as a bigger player as an author, or I mean, even that's changing these days, right? But like, you know, it's when people say, Oh, well, if you want to, you know, get picked up by like, you know, Penguin or whatever, right? Like, you have to have a huge, huge list. But it's like with anything, right? Well, that's great. But if I'm trying to build a list, and I already have a book, why not use the book, as an asset and building that list, I don't have to wait. I can make this a part of things right now. And all the people that you can help by having that book out there right now. They don't have to wait to get that goodness.

Patti Zorr 22:13

Yeah, absolutely. It's just, that's why I feel like a book, you can do so much with it, you know, it's you're connecting with your audience, you're now able to build your list, because QR codes have just made it easier before. And you know, and then you can really start to just nurture that reader. And it's a great way and maybe you're testing content, maybe you're writing content. And you want to know if it's gonna resonate with your audience. How cool. You know, when somebody asks us for our opinion, don't you feel special about it when someone says, Hey, I'm reading this chapter? And I'm just not sure if it's resonating or is working? Would you mind reading it? Yeah, you want my opinion? Okay. Thanks. Absolutely. All right. We all love to give our opinions. And you can even post something like that on social media too, right? Because opinions are found everywhere. Online for sure.

Britney Gardner 23:08

Yeah, and there's no shortage of opinions. Whether it's fear, whatever we want to call it. This has been fantastic. Patti. Is there anything you'd like to say in closing, before we wrap up?

Patti Zorr 23:23

I think just remember marketing, no matter when you do it, and it's a long game, there's rare instances of a quick return. Once you have a book, you're always marketing your book. And like anything, it it takes time, a lot of authors I know feel like, okay, they got their book published and feel like, that's the finale. And really, it's the beginning. It's almost like I guess the women out there will understand it, but like birthing a baby, right? You've been cooking this thing for 910 months. And then here comes the baby. And now it's like, whoa, okay, now that we're scalability, it's sort of the same way with your book, you just want to make sure you you're talking about it all the time. You may be tired of talking about it. But like you mentioned earlier, right? The audience needs seven touch points, if not 20. So you want to be talking about it all the time. You're always marketing it. But over time, you'll start to see those returns come in.

Britney Gardner 24:30

Perfect. Well, Patti, thank you so much. I appreciate it.

Patti Zorr 24:33

Yeah, absolutely. This is fun. Thank you.

Britney Gardner

All right, Patti, thank you, again, so much for coming on the know like and trust show. Everything we talked about is paramount to building know, like, and trust. And while there are other ways to do it outside of books, obviously, we talked about quite a few of those. I can't think of a way that kind of encompasses so many of the things I've talked about on the show, for the last few years, as doing what we talked about on the show would be so with that said, if you enjoyed this episode, if you found value in this, if you heard it and thought oh, so and so they need to hear that, go ahead and share it with them. And then do all of us a solid and leave a five star review on Apple podcasts or any other podcast app that you're listening on. I'm personally a big fan of overcast these days. So hang out wherever you're going to hang out, but help us let this message reach more people so we can all build the know like and trust factor in authentic ethical ways and fill our business with really good people along the way. Talk soon

Transcribed by https://otter.ai